Talk:Arnett McMillan/@comment-27788729-20160523202720/@comment-5864990-20160530160547
@NTRanon, I think the difference between us is that you are easily convinced by the NTR possibilities of Kazuya's Freezing whereas I see Elly's reaction to Kazuya's Freezing as a side effect of the experience. For starters, you are taking the definition of Freezing and interpreting it your own way as a revelation of true desires to support your argument, which is fine, but please do not present your interpretation as fact or canon. I was looking a page reference, and there is none, which is why the "true desires" part is not a part of the Freezing page. I'm also not saying mind control at all. It is most definitely bodily control, but I think of the experience more scientifically with Kazuya's Freezing affecting the Stigmata, which affects, the body with its highest influence on the brain releasing dopamine, endorphins that stimulate immense/heightened pleasure that we correlate to emotional and physical intimacy, but it is not voluntary. When I think about Elly's true feelings, I think of her feelings being un-influenced by any outside force. Without the outside force, she thinks nothing romantic or intimate about Kazuya. The reason I say "without the Stigma" is because Stigma can be removed.. That's why it is relevant. If Andre's Freezing was as powerful as Kazuya or if Andre had a Stigma Body, I'd completely imagine that Elly would feel the same. However, I don't think it's any Limiter's true goal to get their Pandora horny with their Freezing. As for what Andre and Morrison feel after witnessing their Pandora's experiences, we'll probably never know. The author won't follow up, and we can only speculate. For me, these feelings spawned from Kazuya's Freezing are not real, especially if all Pandora would feel the same. I don't think they are "real" because without the Freezing field, they don't feel that way. That is where I draw the line. How a person feels when they drunk or horny might be extremely different from the way they feel when they are sober and level-headed. That isn't to dismiss those feelings, but to put them in perspective. Do you truly believe that Elizabeth, at her very core as a human being, wants to spend the rest of her life with Kazuya to bend herself to a man she's never thought twice about? When I mention Elizabeth's autonomy, I am establishing that people like her who are comfortable with themselves, happy, self-assured, and confident with natural-born leadership do not have an inherent desire to want to bow down to others. To say that from chapter 196-present, Elizabeth has always had that desire to be at Kazuya's feet is bordering on nonsense. Of course there is the aspect of proudly saluting and following one's superior when we have respect and admiration for that person. I also think Elly's true desires extend beyond romance as well. Do all Pandora at the very core of their humanity want to be subservient to Kazuya? I look at this as a natural response (the Gengo predicted) that all Pandora will have toward a Limiter with a Stigma Body, not a suddent declaration or realization for true love. What about the Pandora who doesn't want to be in a romantic relationship or one who hates bowing to others or the Pandora, like Su-Na, who do not want that level of intimacy with others? I would say the same for Ticy, Arnett, and Su-Na (had she been influenced). Satellizer, it would be different because she loves Kazuya. The other girls don't. As for the "build-up," that's not a weak argument I am presenting. If this was like chapter five and the girls felt this way, then I'd be on board with you because that's how harem manga works. But 200 chapters the line, and the author doesn't a page on Elizabeth questioning her romance for Andre let alone feeling anything for Kazuya until Kazuya releases a Freezing with potency that he didn't have prior to chapter 196. If Elly or the other Pandora want to bang Kazuya following this experience then so be it. I'm just not jumping on the NTR train or whatever, questioning every relationship up to this point, without raising my eyebrow, analyzing the experiences, and the reactions in perspective while asking a couple of the right questions.